Lydian Mode

[Meef Chaloin]

I'm getting back in to learning theory & just been reading about Lydian mode. I thought I understood modes but after reading about this one I obviously don't. Where the hell does the #4th come from? I don't get why its there at all, it didnt explain it in the text I was reading.

How can the #4th sound good if played over some chords from the relative major scale (which would be based on a natual, unsharpened 4th)?

[Spliffington]

A lot of the time the #4th sounds good leading into the 5th...suppose you have a chord prog. G-F, when you're playing the G scale against the F chord, it's got that #4th in it...hard to put it in words, but I know it when I hear it. All I know is I was told the intro to the "Simpsons" theme is in lydian mode...but then I'm not really a trained musician, I just try to play what sounds good to me...

[dubcreator]

Well you shouldn't mix the different scales. Just stick to the tonal distances used in that particular scales.
Like Lydian scale is almost the same as major scale exept the quart (4th) is raised by a semitone thus #F and make no use of the F within the scale as that one doesn't belong in the Lydian C scale.

But most important is as you say yourself... just play what sound good to you.

[the manor]

i know nothin of scales believe it or not haha but ask debstar she got ears like no one else , she can hear a pin drop amongst a whole recording

[Bobzyeruncle]

Could do well studying up on some hindustani Raggas, as the scale is often shifted in exactly the same way, but they have also other rules, like not playing certain notes going down the scale, rather only going up, so you sometimes have to go deeper than the note you are aiming for before actually hitting it. Same as rising on the scale you should avoid certain notes.
But the modal music is not simply about playing up and down scales. It goes alot deeper than that.
As some have mentioned, you hear it and feel it is right.
Coltrane did a lot of this on his sax when he was in his heyday, and it certainly influenced jazz for many generations to come.

[dubcreator]

Indian Raga's are the most complicated pieces of music. But most is about syncopated patterns and weird time signatures like 5/8 and so on.
I did study on them to learn Tabla and Sitar... bwoy that's hard to learn.

[Bobzyeruncle]

I do tabla myself, and after a really difficult two years, I get the feeling that I am actually understanding what goes on. Been playing 3 years with a Sitar player who thinks he`s great, but I get the feeling he copies Kushal Das more than play the Raggas. Am now playing for a couple of singers, which is far more interesting, and I can feel the Ragga work a lot better.
If Alex fancies it, I can send him some scales as a graphic, or post a page full (copymachine from a book).
when playing in different timings (for western ears) you should think in smaller groups, like a Campak (11/4) is really 2,2,2,2,3 as a cycle,, or a Dipchandi (14/4) is 3,4,3,4....
and so on.
If you are looking for tabla loops for your sounds, please feel free to get in touch, and I can play some in for you (I have a couple of nice sets, and decent recording gear).
A very interesting man in the creation of modal music is a chap called Tansen, who died about 400 years ago, but created some beautiful scales, which are still used in one form or the other. Is really the backbone of what we know as Hindustani Classic.

[Meef Chaloin]

thanks for the info everyone. Bobz, some Indian scales would be most welcome, I do plan on moving in to that area because I have a sitar.

Have you tried incoporating those time signatures with western songs? It would be an interesting experiment, probably sounding something like The Cardiacs.

About Lydian though, I was being stupid and got the keys mixed up, i realised that in G, the lydian would indeed have the F#.

[Samson]

Lydian mode is DREAD

[Bobzyeruncle]

Wow Meef!
Didn`t know you had a sitar. First lesson is to sit correctly, and that wire plectrum is torture for the first few months too!
The pentagonic scale (as in a lot of Irish and persian music) is really a fundemental, which is the basis for many rags. They diverse from each other in the note order alot, giving some very different moods and expressions along the way. One of my favourites in this scale is rag Mheg, and can be played in many different styles, the sitar as a lead instrument is very suitable for it.
Something I noticed generally about some sitar players is that they often try to play too many notes too quickly, thus loosing the real expression of the rag, like concentrating more on their technique (obviously important) than the feel of the music.
I have a book full of rags and scales, and will copy some off in the near future as pdf`s or jpegs for you.

Greetz.