Help with drums

[A_R Riddim Studios]

Hi all

Has anybody out there got any ideas on virtual drummer programs that are good for reggae? I have looked at Ezdrummer, but it sounds like it is only any good for rock music. I need to get a more natural feling to my beats, rather than just repetitive loops.

Peace
Rob

[DreadOperator]

can't help alot there, but it's highly dependend on what style of reggae/dub you want.
using (self)recorded samples certainly helps, but i can only offer some vintage/70's style hits i recorded a while ago. getting the 80's early drum machines sound is way easier, check this site: ...KB6.de... Free Drum Samples - Free Downloads - Drum Kit - Wav Samples and go for the Kawai R-50e samples eg.. if you want this kind of modern roots drum sounds .. i don't know
about the repetitive part, just build your own patterns, make different variations, imitate old tunes, make sure you have some velocity range in your patterns, maybe play them on your midi keyboard, use triplets, add some swing/groove etc ..
good topic tho, hope there is some more qualified answers to come

[MADMIXA PRODUCTIONS]

I'll tell you straight up... you have to put in work.
Your drum kits should've been the 1st thing you got up to speed, before trying to produce... or you'll frustrate yourself. One program... simply won't cut it, because reggae and dancehall(all forms of music) can tend to be 'moody', and on a digital perspective... your drum kits have to address your moods and the many moods of the people(you can find a use for most drum sounds, pending on the project). The other thing is... you have to know how to 'tweek' your drums digitally to give them that natural or authentic sound(sometimes "making them dirty"). Out of the box or constant use of 'stock sounds'... won't teach you anything and you'll exhaust your resources.
"Repetative loops"... try creating multiple patterns, with various changes(like creating one for a 'bridge','hook',etc)... combine the patterns and what you'll have is a song.(This is the common way of doing this... on most machines or programs it featured in most 'song modes'.)
There are a lot of ways and tricks, but if you don't get your drum kits up and get skillful on your own equiptment/programs... it's going to be a long/hard journey. You can't be impatient or you'll only treat it as a fad.

You want a 'natural feeling beat'... turn off the quantizing and create a 4, an 8, and a 16 bar drum pattern. Sometimes, you have to take full control... just to catch a vibe.(I have a few songs in my library that features this, feel free to check them out.)

Oh, another thing... try to have a vision, theme, or mental direction/picture for your song. ANYONE CAN MAKE BEATS, but does it fit the description... the theme... the emotion/direction of the project?
Example... if I want a song that is meant for someone to get close to the opposite sex... I'm not going to create some deep hearted, anguish driven track. Be able to identify with the crowd that your are trying to cater to. Get involved with the scene and the vibe.(that doesn't mean you have to indulge, just observe and take mental notes) A lot of 'hollowness' in the music often is caused by 'limited interaction' or no real association to the music. Look, it'll take more than a Bob Marley song to catch and appreciate the vibe(I'm not saying this is you)... I'm speaking generally.
Only you can honestly assess your commitment...


I hope my response doesn't discourage you... but, you just can't do this(digitally) with modest means or you'll never achieve 'the sound' that you're looking for. "Your" drum kits will have to meet your demands, while satisfying the masses.
Trust me, you're not the only ones on here that's going thru 'the motions' right now... a lot of these producers on here play real drums(guitars,bass,etc), but they run across the same issues... especially when they're looking for real horns or horn section that meets their vision for their project.

Hopefully, my response will open this discusion up further... so, you'll have more than one response.

(please don't ask what I use, because they are nothing but empty shells... until I filled it with what "I wanted".)

Bless

[Albusark]

Reason is a great basic program for making drum loops. But if you are lucky enough to find a good drummer, forget all the programing stuff and focus on mike setups and drum tuning... nothing will ever beat (no pun intended) real drums.

[MADMIXA PRODUCTIONS]

Originally Posted by Albusark

... nothing will ever beat (no pun intended) real drums.

Uhhhh... that depends on what your doing and how skilled of a drummer you are. Real drums are... what the musician is... and what they're using. Let's not forget... one of the main reasons for going digital is... not everyone has a 21 piece drum set or the room to house it. I have kits ranging from a classical, orchestra to ethinic percussions... and produce Dancehall, Hiphop, R & B, Neo Soul, House, Trance, Experimental, and anything that comes to my twisted mind... and my only restrictions are in my mind... not what's setup in my basement or available at the studio.

I will never debate the "warmth" and skill behind a real instrument, but how can you talk about what's "real"... and recording on a digital/virtual format? C'mon...how much "real" sound do you lose during the digital recording process or the current format that it's presented on(such as a MP3 or CD)? Nevermind... I know the answer.
I went thru that 'mindset'... before converting my Albums and 45's to mp3's to meet the demands of modern day DJing(which led to me having to catch up, because I thought the 'old way' way the best way... uh, not always.)

I've been around long enough to know better than that(if you can live and you can learn). You can also, modify some 'old school' tricks too.

[Albusark]

I use analog and some digital drums. But I don't look up to King Jammy the way I look up to Sly Dunbar, Sticky Thompson or especially Carlton Barrett. Digital drumming is often good, but the reliance on it has really destroyed the momentum of great reggae music. That is to say that limitations have reversed: in the old days, you had to have a good drummer in order to make good music. Now because its harder to find real musicians of real physical instruments, you have to have the skills to do it digitally. Drum tracks done by a real drummer have so much more soul and feeling, I can't imagine changing out all the great roots music of the past with digital drums it wouldn't work. But I feel you Mixmasta, realistically digital drums can be great and even indistinguishable from real drums it is an art and a science of its own, and its the future of reggae music.

[Bobzyeruncle]

A mate of mine is sellingg his pearl export for 300€ complete if you fancy.
Got everything with it, cymbals and stands, even a kick pedal....

Can`t get my head around the inability of some people to manipulate samples.
EZ drummer is a fine program for creating reggae beats, as someone mentioned, you have to do a bit of work on the sounds...
Use your imagination.

[BARBES D]

more choice !! more imagination !! more reggae Music !!!!!!!

[RATIONAL MOVEMENT]

I use Battery VST...easy to use & does the business....i also use my DnB/Jungle knowledge about chopping up beats & samples to help give it a more natural feel

[DreadOperator]

if you want something more out-of-the-box (do you?) you might want to take a look at this: Reggae Fundamentals|ueberschall.com
tried it today, i totally dislike the player, but there's some pretty finished sounding loops and drum hits in it (and you can still get the single samples out of it, just look into the ElastikRenderCache folder in the home directory while usind the elastik player :x).
i haven't used a single drum loop so far tho, and it's far more fun to build your own ones imo.